How To R.O.C.K. Your Partners World with Lee Jagger

Jordan D’Nelle 0:01
Welcome to Vaginas Vulvas and Vibrators with Jordan D’Nelle. This is a safe place to learn about women’s health and sexual wellness. I’m your host Jordan D’Nelle, physician assistant, women’s sexual health educator, and intimacy coach. On today’s episode I have a special guest joining me to talk all about erotic massage and rocking the bedroom. This episode is so hot you guys. Oh, my goodness, I cannot wait for you to listen. We are learning how to really embrace your sexual power. take charge between the sheets, and pleasure your man to unbelievable limits, so this episode is amazing.

Before we get into today’s episode, I want to tell you about my sexy box. Sexy box is a quarterly subscription box with all the hottest intimacy enhancement products. This sexy box is valued at over $100, and it’s yours for only $74.99, and trust me, usually they are worth way more than $100. I highly recommend getting yours right away. To get your sexy box go to Link is in the bio.

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Joining me today is Lee Jagger. She is the CEO and founder of Rock the Bedroom, the only sex education community of its kind. She helps women to be more confident, creative, and playful in the bedroom. She specializes in erotic massage and makes it easy for women to embrace their power and take charge between the sheets. She helps women know exactly where and how to touch a man to drive him wild. Lee has taught in person and online workshops internationally and helped women move from a stale same old same old sex routine to the next level of passionate play time. Can we get a hell yes! It’s her mission to normalize conversations around sexuality and to make routine sex a thing of the past. Lee, welcome to the Vaginas, Vulvas, and Vibrators podcast, I am so excited to record with you today. Do you want to go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became an erotic massage coach?

Lee Jagger 3:02
Yes, so I’m Lee Jagger and I help women be more confident and creative in the bedroom. I specialize in erotic massage. I find that that’s a really fabulous easy way for women to really step into their power, embrace their inner goddess in the bedroom and take charge between the sheets and know exactly how to drive him wild.

Jordan D’Nelle 3:33
I love that. What is erotic massage?

Lee Jagger 3:37
Erotic massage. So, it’s interesting. A lot of people just assume that it is like just a hand job, like plain old up and down fast and furious. It’s a means to an end. It’s like a way to get him erect or a way to take him over the top and give them a climax. But in my world erotic massage feels more like a slow Sunday drive on the scenic route of his body. Like driving along the coast and meandering on all his curves. And it’s sort of . . . it’s next level. It’s up leveling your intimacy with your guy. Your care for your guy. Erotic massage is not whacking him off. None of my trainings feel like you’re whacking him off. It’s just this slow, intimate exploration of his body which includes, yes, his genitals. So typically, a handjob, the up and down that we all have seen in the movies, and you think of just plain all up and down a little awkward for women. No, I’ve discovered a way to really love on a man’s body in a way it feels good for the woman so that she’s lit up and she’s turned on and she’s feeling empowered by being able to be the catalyst for his stratospheric turned-on state.

Jordan D’Nelle 5:17
I love the way you put that. When would somebody use an erotic massage?

Lee Jagger 5:24
Most of my female have said, When I enter into an intimate situation with my guy, it’s sexy time now, we’re going to bed; the intention is to have sex. They’ve almost all said, If I incorporate erotic massage as part of the foreplay, like if I skip erotic massage, and we just go back to what we typically do, sex is mediocre. It’s okay. It’s all right. But when they incorporate the erotic massage as part of the foreplay, but treating it not just as foreplay, but as the main event. I’ve heard so many guys say oh my god that was better than sex. And there was no vagina involved. Like just erotic massage. So, when you kind of meld the erotic massage in with your play time in the bedroom, then any kind of sexual interaction is just so much better. Because erotic massage the way I teach, it incorporates a lot of communication, a lot of verbal exploration, the clarification like Hey, does it feel better when I go this faster, this slow or use a little bit firmer pressure, a lighter pressure, it just opens up communication in the bedroom. And so, you the woman can more easily slip into communicating your own needs, instead of just servicing the guy. A lot of women think that erotic massage just about servicing a guy; it is so not. It’s not at all. It’s this two-way street that opens up between two people that really enhances whatever playtime you’ve already got going on. Or it reignites play time that has gone dormant. Which is if you’re in a long-term relationship, then sex is going to get a little stale and boring. So, it can be used to reignite your time in the bedroom with your guy too.

Jordan D’Nelle 7:47
Yeah, and I think that’s so important to always keep in mind if there are ways to keep that passion alive and reignite the flame because it can get very stagnant, the same, and a little boring, honestly. I literally just before we hopped on this call did an Instagram post about an experience where my partner had incorporated a lot of massage and touch and feedback. And there was no penetration, and that experience alone was so much better for me than a sexual penetrative experience. And so, I can only imagine for a man what that would be like too.

Lee Jagger 8:32
Right, because guys typically go straight for the intercourse because all roads lead to the vagina. And like that’s the pinnacle. That’s what they’re climbing the mountain for, is to get there. And yeah, One of the guy partners of a female client that I had said the words, Yes, sex used to be like the ultimate pursuit, the ultimate pinnacle. But now I actually prefer her hands because there are things her hands can do that her pussy can’t. Right? There’s so much more that you could do with your hands. That is not just a penetrative in and out of a soft, warm space. So, and I’ve had a lot of male clients say, you know, wow, that was better than sex. Wow, what are you doing with your hands? It feels like I’m entering you. It feels like your mouth is on me. And it’s really only my hands. At the beginning you said how did I get involved with this? Right now, I only work with female clients, but I used to have male clients. I did erotic massage for a living for six years. And prior to that I was a total sexual wallflower. I did not know how to touch a man’s privates. I was very selfish in the bedroom. I would receive all the foreplay, all the oral and all the yummy, juicy and all of it, I would receive it gladly. But I would not give it because I felt totally inept, honestly, in the bedroom. I just didn’t, I didn’t know what to do down there, a little up and down and that’s all I got, okay, just to get in there. Like, that’s what they want anyway, foreplay is a means to an end. That’s what I used to think. And I was at a time in my life where I had been homeless for a while. I was at the time living in the living room of a hoarder’s house with my 10-year-old. And I got a call in response to a massage ad, just regular massage on Craigslist. And this woman called me and said, Hey, I have this massage office, and I’m hiring. Have you ever thought of erotic massage? And I said, that’s with the happy ending, right? She’s like, Yeah. And I said, uh, yeah, no, that’s, that’s not my dealio because I didn’t know how to do an erotic massage. But I was broke honestly, at the time. And she threw out some dollar figures of what women typically made. And I thought, Alright, maybe I’ll just bite the bullet. Do this for a couple of weeks. And just get ahead and a mother will do anything for their kids. So, I went in, and it was not as bad as I thought. The guy on the table was a.) drop dead gorgeous. It was amazing, and b.) that happy ending part. We did a forehand; there was a pro in the room with me and she kind of took the lead. And I followed along, and I took a million mental notes, and the happy ending part didn’t look too hard. So, I’m like, Yeah, okay, I’ll keep doing this. And I ended up doing it for six years. I thought I would do it for maybe six days. But I found that it was hugely empowering for my personal life. A couple months in, I thought, oh my gosh, I used to think, oh, god, okay, how do I get out of having sex tonight? After two or three months of being with a guy, I was not interested in sex anymore. Because those have the wrong kind of sex. It was all just wham bam, thank you, ma’am. Even though I set it up that way because I didn’t know what to do in the bedroom. But now my sex life was becoming very, very exciting. And instead of never initiating. I relished in initiating. I’d push the guy down on the bed, and Oh, baby, you just lay there. I’m going to take care of you. I was having fun with that. And so, I realized, I thought, if I had had this information, 20 years ago, my whole sex life would have been way different. And then asking around, I realized I was not the only one who felt that way. And so, I decided to teach what I now knew. And all the techniques that I had discovered, 69 of which, just for the genitals alone, I thought, oh, my gosh, okay, I need to spread the word here and empower some women in the bedroom, the way that I was empowered. And for those women who don’t have 2000 penises to practice on, like I did. I said, okay, let’s crunch it down. And so that led me to coaching women in the bedroom and helping them feel liberated, basically,

Jordan D’Nelle 13:37
That’s beautiful. Something that I have learned through this journey myself is I am having so much better sex now that I have stepped into this intimacy coaching and have done more of that work. It’s just so much better. And I totally relate to what you’re saying. And women need this information. Like, we crave it; we want to know it, and having access to that; you’re right, a lot of women don’t have access to 2000 penises to go practice on. And they need those tools in their toolbox to keep their marriage to have more pleasure for themselves and just to change it up. So, I love what you’re doing.

Lee Jagger 14:22
Thank you. Yeah, I did a search and I thought, okay, there’s got to be something on YouTube out there. This has already been done. Someone’s probably already taught this stuff. And I’m just not in the loop. And I went looking and I mean, there were a few sex gurus out there and they were demonstrating on cucumbers, and just icons in the industry. And I’m looking at what they’re putting out. I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is really 101. No, this can’t be the best sex education out there and leave porn right out of it because that’s entertainment that is not sex education at all. And I thought, No, it’s not out there. You can’t find this. There’s no one teaching what I learned the hard way. So yeah, it’s so needed. And we think that it’s all about the guy. It’s all about servicing the guy. It’s not, it’s really not. It’s about women stepping into their power in and out of the bedroom. If you’re totally in control in the bedroom, you’re like Beyonce, walking onto her stage and like owning it in the bedroom. Oh my gosh, like, you end up taking that into the workplace. You’re more confident with your boss asking for a raise. You don’t take crap from any guy out there. You just feel more solid in your power as a woman in general out in the world. Yeah, it’s powerful stuff. And it has huge ripple effects in and out of the bedroom.

Jordan D’Nelle 15:54
It really does. I even have to connect you with my friend, Rachel Z, she has kind of a similar story, but she teaches how to master your man. That’s what her program is called. And I’m going to have to connect you guys because I feel like you too, would really hit it off and just have a lot to talk about and potentially collaborate. So, oh, I love that. In your experience, what do men wish that women knew about touching their body?

Lee Jagger 16:23
Oh, my gosh. So, hands down most of those 2000 clients I had gave me some version of this answer. I’m going to give you, but I will quote one of them as saying, I wish women would touch it like they like it. Because they can feel that. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on a massage table, just a regular massage table. And you can tell when the person’s kind of like their mind is wandering, you could tell through their touch, they’re not really there, or they’re paying attention to something else. And you can feel it through their touch. Men can feel when women don’t feel confident about touching their penis, or their genitals in general. Men identify hugely with their genitals. That’s why it’s called their manhood. If there’s something going on down there it really affects them psychologically, emotionally like it’s a punch in the gut, when they can sense that you’re feeling icky about their privates. They interpret that as you feel icky about them. So, if you’re just whacking them off trying to get something done, they feel that; they feel you putting up with it, your tolerance, you’re, okay, I will acquiesce reluctantly. They know that, and they just want you to play with it like you like it. And so, it’s such a source of pride for me to help women not just know what to do in the bedroom and not just have a whole bunch of techniques in their sexual toolbox, but to really love it. Like it’s so juicy to them, like women really, honestly, authentically initiating in the bedroom and wanting to do these things for their guy, because it’s a next level of love for them. You know, the love languages, The Five Love Languages? So, the top two for guys are words of affirmation and physical touch. Physical touch is either one or number two for almost every guy. So, when women are hesitant to touch a man’s most precious part of their body, that takes a toll on your relationship, on his psyche, on his confidence in himself. so, yeah, I think that’s definitely that would be my answer. Touch it like you like it. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Jordan D’Nelle 19:14
I think that enthusiasm when it comes to especially the penis is so important. And you’re right, they feel it. They totally feel it. They know when you want to be doing it. And when you’re just doing a job

Lee Jagger 19:28
And a lot of women might say, Oh, no, my guy totally loves it. You know? No, you know what? He will drink dirty water if he’s in a desert. He’ll take what you give, he won’t complain much because he realizes if I complain about that, I’m not even getting that. And even though it’s not like WOOHOO! it’s something because men need sexual interaction like they need water. They need it way more often than a lot of women do. So, women don’t understand that men are different that way. You got to love on him with all your might enthusiastically it’s got to be a hell yes for you. Otherwise, he’ll sense it. Totally sense it.

Jordan D’Nelle 20:11
I love the way that you say that orgasm pleasure for men is like water for them as a need. That is so true. Last night, I was working with my therapist, and we were talking about some of my own needs. One of the things that came up is that one of my basic needs is orgasms. And I’m sure a lot of other people can relate to that. I love that comparison. So, in a relationship, how do you keep the spark alive?

Lee Jagger 20:41
Oh, my goodness, I think a lot of people think that you just hop on a plane, go to Mexico and that’s how you keep spark alive. That to me is like putting a Band-Aid on a gushing carotid artery. It’ll fix things temporarily. But then you come home and three weeks later, you’re back to the same old, same old. And I think it’s a daily thing. It’s reconnecting with your partner all the time, in small little ways, in big ways, but mostly it’s the little ways like, really finding out what your partner likes in the bedroom. Finding out even out of the bedroom. How does he like to be touched? If you’re sitting there watching TV with him? How does he want you to touch him> Does he want you to touch him? Really discovering your partner and being genuinely interested in what lights them up. And of course, that is a gateway to you opening up about what you really need to of course, it’s a two-way street. But just keeping an open mind. Like I have a Rock the Bedroom kind of formula. It’s R.O.C.K. and the R stands for reconnect, if you live with your guy, I mean, not everybody lives together, and sometimes you only see your boyfriend on the weekend, but you do what you can. But there’s also sending them little messages or calling or whatever. But reconnecting with your partner every day in some small way. And knowing their love language definitely helps. If words of affirmation are not a thing for them, it’s not even on their radar, then maybe texting isn’t the best way to establish that connection. And then the O stands for Open, being open to spicing things up, to trying something new, to exploring what your partner’s fantasies are, exploring what your own fantasies are, discovering what your fantasies are. If someone says, Oh, what’s your sexual fantasy? I never used to have any. I honestly didn’t have any. I didn’t even know until I started getting into this work and now, I have lots of fantasies. But that was a journey, you know. So being open to spice things up for your partner and for yourself is a big one. The C stands for communicate your preferences. It’s so important to have an open communication channel with your partner and make it safe for them to communicate with you. There are so many things, especially in the bedroom, that are left unsaid. You know, the bedroom is a very quiet place. Externally, internally in your brain there’s a whole dialogue going on. Oh, God, I hate it when he does that all the time. I wish he wouldn’t do that or okay, I think I need to start faking an orgasm now because I’m done and I’m getting a little raw here and I wanted to stop and the only way it’s going to stop is if I have an orgasm. There’s a whole dialogue going on in your head. And if we just get that out and communicate in a respectful manner, then things go much smoother, and it’s much more fun and you feel more yourself like you can just relax and really sink into all the juicy sensations when you’re not up in your head. Right, just sink into your body. And then the K stands for kiss for the sake of kissing. And what I mean by that is like, not all methods of affection need to lead to sex. I find that a lot of women in long term relationships after a while they totally stonewall their guy; they shut off all forms of affection, kissing, even touching, just vanilla touching, not even in the kitchen. She just shuts them off. Because they’ve gotten into a pattern where if she doesn’t want to have sex for whatever reason, then she knows that she has to cut everything off affection wise, otherwise, if she leans into that kiss and really is passionate with that kiss, he’s going to misinterpret it as oh, we’re getting it on. I love putting my hand on my guy’s genitals when there’s no chance that we’re going to have sex, like, just touch it for the sake of touching it. Because A) he likes my hand there, it feels good to him; B) I like my hand there. It’s warm, it’s soft. It’s just, it’s really connecting with him. Being affectionate for the sake of just being affectionate. Just showing your partner, I love you, I adore you, I can’t get enough of you. I can’t stop touching you. I can’t stop kissing you. Not that it has to mean anything else, other than I adore you. So, to be really clear about your intentions, and maybe I just want a 20-minute make-out session, and I don’t want to have sex, I just want to make out with you on the couch. Be really clear about that. And that’s where communication comes in again. But yeah, I like reinforcing those four aspects with all the people I work with, because it’s not just about getting it on in the bedroom. There’s so much more to it.

Jordan D’Nelle 26:19
There is! And your R.O.C.K. formula is fabulous. One thing that I was going to bring up is, I’m reading this book called Burnout by Emily Nagurski. I don’t know if you heard of it. I’m sure you’ve heard about Emily Nagurski. So, she wrote a book called Burnout. And in the first chapter, she talks about affection as one way to complete the stress cycle. And having a six second kiss. It means that you can’t be in a state of being angry with them. And it just allows you to relax and really connect. And that I think is just beautiful, and I can’t wait to have a partner to have my six second kiss with. But I love the affection. The other thing that you really brought up that I love is when you were talking about being open, your O, and women discovering their own desires. So, when this podcast launches, I will have already completed my most current program called Get the sexy desire. And it’s all about helping women discover their own desires and what they want. Because you’re right, like, you got to discover your own stuff, too. So, I love your rock formula. That’s awesome.

Lee Jagger 27:35
And I love that you have that course. Oh my gosh, hallelujah. Because yes, more women need to explore, explore, explore, explore, big time. It’s not just about being good in bed. Being good in bed incorporates being good in your body, being good in your skin, being really locked into you as an individual. You don’t just show up in the bedroom expecting the other person to complete you sexually. You got to show up as a sexually empowered being. And then they show up as a sexually empowered being. And then oh my gosh, fireworks! Fireworks. That’s really important. Yeah. So, thank you for your part in educating women.

Jordan D’Nelle 28:28
Well, thanks. Now, when is your book, Rock the Bedroom coming out?

Lee Jagger 28:33
It is coming out in early 2022. I’m still in the writing process right now. But it’s getting tied up. It’s in the latter stages. I’m super excited because it really expands on the story I told about how I got involved in this work in the first place and the nitty gritty details of what all went down, which is hilarious and scary and empowering, all wrapped in one package. But it’s also a how-to, so it’s educational for women to take the hard-won lessons that are explained in the book and apply them to her bedroom to her life, to feel more empowered, living vicariously through my experience.

Jordan D’Nelle 29:23
I love that I can’t wait to get my hands on a copy of that to dive in and read more about your story. I’m working on a book myself, and it’s very interesting when you write a book, and especially when you share your personal journey and what that looks like. So, I’m excited.

Lee Jagger 29:42
It’s cathartic. And there’s always the fear of judgment that comes up. Like I was a sex worker. I am a sex worker. And so, it’s still a taboo subject, but I think it’s because of that potential judgment that I need to put out the book, I need to be on podcasts like this, I need to normalize conversations around sexuality so that it doesn’t become taboo anymore. You know, let’s bring this subject into the light. The more we talk about it, the less angst there is about it, the less dysfunction there is around sexuality, and the need for sexual therapists. It’s only through talking about this, will people heal.

Jordan D’Nelle 30:31
Amen. And you’re right that we, as educators, coaches, by sharing this information, we are impacting so many people’s lives and helping them have just healthier lives, more pleasure, helping their communication, there’s so many things, helping them be more successful in their jobs. Because when you’re empowered at home, that translates over there and like the work that we do, is so important. And sharing does help decrease that stigma. And it makes other people feel safe in what maybe their decisions are, or kind of what they’re doing. So, I love it. I love it. What have you learned from sex work? And how has that impacted you? As far as the coach that you are today?

Lee Jagger 31:21
Oh, my gosh. I used to empower people through fitness. I was a fitness instructor. I used to empower people in so many different ways, like personal development industry and whatnot. But with the doing the sex work, oh my gosh, this is deep visceral work. And we just mentioned that this is all a very taboo subject. And so, diving deep into discussions that people don’t know how to have with others, that it’s a very vulnerable, intimate subject, sex, and sexual dissatisfaction. Be looking in the movies, and oh, wow, it’s supposed to be that easy. The messages we see out there are so distorted. So, I love bringing the very raw, real behind the scenes experience that I’ve had in the sex world and working with so many men with so many experiences and perspectives and desires. And the guys told me secrets, they’d never tell their wife or their girlfriend or whatever, for fear of repercussions. So, I have all those deep, dark secrets at my disposal to then share with the women and go, you know what, this is something your guy will never tell you, and I’m going to tell you right now. There are so many desires that men have that will never be expressed in the bedroom. There are so many desires that men have that they don’t even know how to articulate, that I can clue the women into. If you say hey, you know, what’s the craziest thing I could do with my hands on your penis right now? There’s going to be a very limited answer that that guy’s going to give you because he can’t even do the things to himself that I teach women how to do on him. So, he doesn’t even know to ask for the stuff that I teach women. So, by being in the sex industry, like as extensively as I have been, I am privy to so many secrets, that you can’t even learn from your guy. Even if you guys talk about everything, there’s no rock that is unturned in your relationship. I have new rocks for you to turn over. So, it’s really helped me empower women on a whole different level that affects all the other areas indirectly, that I used to help women. Great question. Thank you.

Jordan D’Nelle 34:05
I love, I love that. And I can’t wait to see what kind of rocks I need to turn over. So, this conversation has been absolutely wonderful. I’m loving everything. I cannot wait to follow you and learn from you. If the listeners take one thing away from today’s conversation, what would you want it to be?

Lee Jagger 34:28
I would tell the ladies that it’s not her job to rock his world. But it is her job to rock her own world in the bedroom. Like we think that when we’re learning erotic massage, we’re the giver. He’s the receiver. He’s the receiver of all the pleasure. He’s getting the most out of this arrangement. But really, women have the potential to get even more out of that arrangement than he is, and we are responsible for that. We have the power to step into our big girl panties, embrace our intersex goddess and rock our own world. And I don’t mean masturbating, I mean being with the guy, although there’s nothing wrong with masturbating, but being with a guy, and you the woman being so lit up at what you’re doing, not what he’s doing to you, but what you’re doing. So yeah, that’s what I would say I would love for people to take away.

Jordan D’Nelle 35:42
Beautiful, I love that. Where can listeners find you?

Lee Jagger 35:47
If they go to I have a free resource there for people who want to dip their toes in my world. It’s a really fun place to be. There’s a free resource there. And, I have a Rock the Bedroom challenge coming up in December. And it’s a five-day online event 90 minutes a day so you don’t have to put your life on hold or anything. But it’s hands on so we’re going to step into our goddess power. And one of the days I’m actually doing an erotic massage demo live on camera on a real guy. There are no sketches, there’s no cucumbers, there is a penis and it’s live. So fun. And the ladies are there, and we can’t see them, but they are following along with their guy in real time. Getting real time feedback. Oh my gosh, it’s so fun. It’s so good. From the challenge alone I have helped save marriages. It’s so good. So, they can find out more about that at

Jordan D’Nelle 37:07
Beautiful. I will make sure I put that link in there; that sounds so juicy and so hot. I definitely will be watching; probably won’t have a partner, but I will be watching to learn and take it all in. So, I love that. Thank you for sharing and thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. I really appreciate it.

Lee Jagger 37:26
Oh, this has been so fun. I really appreciate what you bring to the world. Just today I was listening to your episode about the prostate massage and yeah, like you’re going places that us as women really need to go. So, thank you for your part in opening up the world, a whole new world for women to really explore their own sexuality in their own bodies in their own desires. Thank you.

Jordan D’Nelle 37:55
I love it. Thank you so much.

This episode is sponsored by Pure Romance by Jordan Jones offering top bath and beauty products and relationship enhancement items. Check out the link in the bio to start shopping today. By shopping you are supporting this podcast.

Thank you for joining today and continuing to bring awareness to women’s health. If you love this show, please subscribe so you never miss another episode. And leave a review for others to see. If you want to see me on the daily, you can check out my bio for links to all my pages. Be sure to share this episode with your girlfriends. Thanks again and see you next episode.

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